Is it Ok. to invite Jesus to Shul?

David Nekrutman, the Executive Director of the Ohr Torah Stone's Center for Jewish-Christian Understanding & Cooperation, thinks so - according to an article in the December 2008 issue of the Jerusalem Post Christian Edition.
Quote: “Nekrutman assured his guests that he wanted them to feel comfortable, and even urged them, despite being in a synagogue, to ‘pray in Jesus name. Don't leave Jesus at the door’."

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Permalink Reply by Jewish Israel on May 25, 2009 at 5:46am
"I don't suggest that any Jew study the NT, unless they are doing so specifically for the purpose of counter missionary work. It's not necessary to learn the NT to dismantle Christianity, but it is helpful in understanding the Christian world, and the mindset of a Jew who is in Christianity."

"If we become so intimately familiar with our own faith, no missionary could ever pass a counterfeit."

Jewish Israel certainly agrees with you on the above points, Shannon. Well put!
Permalink Reply by Captain Q. on May 25, 2009 at 9:15am
Double agree. I only access NT material for disputation and disproval purposes only.

Shannon Orand said:
I don't suggest that any Jew study the NT, unless they are doing so specifically for the purpose of counter missionary work.
Permalink Reply by Yoel on May 27, 2009 at 4:54pm
Captain Q, Shy Guy go easy on Pen Taylor she is a sister strong on the front lines who has properly more experience fighting face to face with the enemies of Torah than many of us.

I do not under stand how any one can say it is alright to bring yashu into any kind of Jewish pray. We are taught the Shema any one who thinks it is alright to bring jesis into any Jewish pray than this is
saying G-D is a liar and idolatry is alright.
Permalink Reply by Captain Q. on May 27, 2009 at 5:24pm
I've been good. :)

Yoel said:
Captain Q, Shy Guy go easy on Pen Taylor.
Permalink Reply by Patty Abbatoy on June 5, 2009 at 6:02am
The original topic was whether or not to invite xtians to shuls, wasn't it? Bad idea. Missionaries only use what they learn from such experiences to pounce on the vulnerable and uniformed. With every encounter with Jews missionaries feel that they just a little bit closer to getting them to accept JC.

If xtians are allowed in shuls it should be to teach them the Noachide laws, not interfaith dialogue.

Captain Q. said:
I fully agree. However, I am now - again - taking off my Orthodox kippa and putting on my Internet forum moderator helmet to remind everyone again that this is a forum with certain subjects under discussion and straying off-topic is the wrong direction to go into.

This has nothing to do with being Jewish and everything to do with being a traffic cop. Thank you for your attention and back on-topic we all go.

Yoel said:
The problem again I see the very orthodox and the not so orthodox getting a little to tuche we are all Jews and I believe the ones who are more schooled than others should be there for the unknowing Jew..
Permalink Reply by Captain Q. on June 5, 2009 at 6:55am
'Atta boy, Abbatoy!

;)
Permalink Reply by Patty Abbatoy on June 5, 2009 at 9:55pm
Thanks, Captain:)
Captain Q. said:
'Atta boy, Abbatoy!

;)
Permalink Reply by Jake Jacobs on October 4, 2009 at 7:35am
I think it depends on who is doing the talking to the christian. Generally speaking, amateurs should NOT try to get someone out of christianity, Rabbi's included if they don't know Tanach AND the NT. Chances are you will NOT be able to answer the xtian and/or missionary as they are better in quoting verses than you! If YOU want to get someone out of this idolatry then you MUST learn the NT and its contradictions within it and the Tanach. Best source whicl all missionaries FEAR is Gerald Sigal's various books which can be found on abebooks.com for reasonable prices.
I have access for russian translation of this book at cost price, so if nayone knows people who need it let me know!

Shy Guy said:
Why is that? If anything, as Ellen has already written, the Sages tell us "dah mah le'hashiv l'Apikores" - "know what to answer the heretic".

If anything, my personal experiences of getting into the muck and the mire which is the New Testament, and following Christians claims while studying their refutations, has only strengthened my Emunah, not only in our our Torah and its philosophies, but also in the unbelievable sham which is the religion of Christianity. Obviously, this needs to be done on a foundation of truth. But you wouldn't believe how fragile is the Christian religion's claim to legitmacy, historic or otherwise.

This is not the place to discuss details of counter-missionary responses. But if a barb - and a very appropriate one at that - like the one made here by Penina affronts someone Jewish here, I think they should return back to Chazal in the Gemara and see what they say about mocking Avodah Zara.

Sara Mount said:
I think it is unnecessary and inappropriate to quote the NT especially a verse that the xians use to perpetuate a Jewish stereotype.
Permalink Reply by Jewish Israel on October 4, 2009 at 4:28pm
We might be speaking about two things
a) getting people out of the church
b) educating our people and warning them about missionary activity and intentions

I imagine an activist or rabbi trying to take a lost soul out of christianity and bring them back to Judaism may need to have knowledge of the NT under their belt.. However, any Jew who is secure in their faith and identity could be sufficiently warned about deceptive people and intentions without necessarily wasting their time on the NT.

Jake Jacobs said:
I think it depends on who is doing the talking to the christian. Generally speaking, amateurs should NOT try to get someone out of christianity, Rabbi's included if they don't know Tanach AND the NT. Chances are you will NOT be able to answer the xtian and/or missionary as they are better in quoting verses than you! If YOU want to get someone out of this idolatry then you MUST learn the NT and its contradictions within it and the Tanach. Best source whicl all missionaries FEAR is Gerald Sigal's various books which can be found on abebooks.com for reasonable prices.
I have access for russian translation of this book at cost price, so if nayone knows people who need it let me know!

Shy Guy said:
Why is that? If anything, as Ellen has already written, the Sages tell us "dah mah le'hashiv l'Apikores" - "know what to answer the heretic".

If anything, my personal experiences of getting into the muck and the mire which is the New Testament, and following Christians claims while studying their refutations, has only strengthened my Emunah, not only in our our Torah and its philosophies, but also in the unbelievable sham which is the religion of Christianity. Obviously, this needs to be done on a foundation of truth. But you wouldn't believe how fragile is the Christian religion's claim to legitmacy, historic or otherwise.

This is not the place to discuss details of counter-missionary responses. But if a barb - and a very appropriate one at that - like the one made here by Penina affronts someone Jewish here, I think they should return back to Chazal in the Gemara and see what they say about mocking Avodah Zara.

Sara Mount said:
I think it is unnecessary and inappropriate to quote the NT especially a verse that the xians use to perpetuate a Jewish stereotype.
Permalink Reply by Penina Tal Ohr (Taylor) on October 4, 2009 at 7:26pm
It used to be that it was "enough" for Jewish people to know that we don't believe christianity, period. However, as I stated in my blog article: http://comingfullcirclebook.wordpress.com/2009/09/30/a-secular-jew-..., "Generation Y has become the “why” generation and young Jewish people – spanning the entire range from Orthodox to unaffiliated – are no longer satisfied with the answer that we believe what we do, just “because”. It is not enough for them to know that we reject other faiths because we are Jews, they need to understand WHY we reject these other faiths. They need to know that we do so not out of rebellion, but for good reason – reasons that have stood the test of time – 2000 plus years of time – reasons that are as eternal as the God who brought us out of Egypt and called us His “chosen people.”

If you are genuinely interested in an in-depth study of answering the most major missionary claims, my 12-week Counter-Missionary Seminar, "Scripture Twisting 101: Know what to answer" will be beginning in Jerusalem in mid November. This class, which I am also teaching at a local Seminary this year may be about refuting missionary claims, but really, its about learning our Scriptures and what the missionaries do to them. You can contact me privately for more information.

But I wholeheartedly agree that those who are involved in kiruv need to really be educated in Christianity because Christians, Hebrew Christians in particular, are coming from a completely different perspective and if you don't understand their WHY, you can't make them understand our WHY.

Penina
Permalink Reply by Captain Q. on October 4, 2009 at 7:51pm
This discussion has kept up nicely over the last half a year.

I should have mentioned this long ago: First and foremost, Jews must understand what G-d is before they begin to realize what He isn't. This starts with baby-steps, such as an article on Maimonides' Third Principle: G-d's Incorporeality, going onward and upward into the works of classic and modern Torah philosophers. An example of the latter would be Rav Yosef Soloveichik z"l.

I think many Jews, including many observant ones, do not have a sufficient grasp of the meaning of the first Pasuk in Kriyat Sh'mah. That's a big stumbling block!

Penina Tal Ohr (Taylor) said:
It used to be that it was "enough" for Jewish people to know that we don't believe christianity, period.
Penina
Permalink Reply by Penina Tal Ohr (Taylor) on October 4, 2009 at 8:07pm
Very very true, and in my course I teach the Jewish understanding, usually BEFORE approaching the Christian argument. Shannon's example of the agent who learnes how to identify a counterfit bill not by studying counterfits but by studying only the real thing is an incredibly accurate metaphor. We've GOT to know what Judaism believes before we learn what it doesn't.

Moadim l'simcha,
Penina

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