Is it permissible to burn missionary bibles?
If the stuff was given to you, then it's yours to trash. So, sure it's permissible to burn missionary materials (but not missionaries!).
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Permalink Reply by Jewish Israel on
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Relly said:
Your source, please?It is a mitzva to burn the bibles. Even if G-d's name appears in them.
Are you assuming a Christian published bible has the same halacha as a Sefer Torah written by an Apikores (heretic)?
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Permalink Reply by ellen on
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I spoke to David Nekrutman of the Center for Jewish-Christian Understanding and Cooperation in Efrat after I had blogged about a decision that Rabbi Riskin had rendered several years ago when missionary bibles were distributed into everybodys' mailbox in Efrat - with the intent of converting Jews to Christianity. David called me to clarify the context of Rabbi Riskin's ruling . The ruling was to burn the entire bible which included both the Hebrew and New Testament Bible. A Bible which is written on a heretical basis is not considered sacred. However, at the time I did not think to ask how Rabbi Riskin felt about burning the new testament exclusively or the exclusive new testament...hmmmmm...
Jewish Israel said:Relly said:
Your source, please?It is a mitzva to burn the bibles. Even if G-d's name appears in them.
Are you assuming a Christian published bible has the same halacha as a Sefer Torah written by an Apikores (heretic)?
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I would have to agree with that. But can we get some major poskim on this issue?
Relly said:These books are an invitation to idolatry.
They reek with self-righteousness, and hypocrisy.
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Permalink Reply by Captain Q. on
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I wrote the prior post asking if an NT is equated to a Sefer Torah written by an Apikores. I did NOT mean to imply that the books need be treated in a respectable manner. I meant to ask if the Din of burning is more so by a Sefer Torah, which is the ultimate in Kedusha and here being reduced to the ultimate opposite, versus a printed edition of the Chumash with a heretical translation. Perhaps the latter can simply be disposed of in any manner, whereas a heretical Torah, even without a translation and with every letter written perfectly on the most exquisite parchment is what needs burning.
I hope there are no misunderstanding of my intent now.
Relly said:Definitely. And it is like someone handed me a dirty diaper.
Jewish Israel said:Relly said:
Your source, please?It is a mitzva to burn the bibles. Even if G-d's name appears in them.
Are you assuming a Christian published bible has the same halacha as a Sefer Torah written by an Apikores (heretic)?
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Captain Q. said:I wrote the prior post asking if an NT is equated to a Sefer Torah written by an Apikores. I did NOT mean to imply that the books need be treated in a respectable manner. I meant to ask if the Din of burning is more so by a Sefer Torah, which is the ultimate in Kedusha and here being reduced to the ultimate opposite, versus a printed edition of the Chumash with a heretical translation. Perhaps the latter can simply be disposed of in any manner, whereas a heretical Torah, even without a translation and with every letter written perfectly on the most exquisite parchment is what needs burning.
I hope there are no misunderstanding of my intent now.
Relly said:Definitely. And it is like someone handed me a dirty diaper.
Jewish Israel said:Relly said:
Your source, please?It is a mitzva to burn the bibles. Even if G-d's name appears in them.
Are you assuming a Christian published bible has the same halacha as a Sefer Torah written by an Apikores (heretic)?
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The link to Penina's article: "Taking Out the Trash".
We will be adding more articles to our article section soon
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Shannon Orand said:Besides all the halachic instructions on proper disposal of idolatrous material, it feels good for somebody who's been there! Just as it's healing for an abused child to beat the heck out of a pillow, or to cut your ex-girlfriend out of pictures... it's a true sense of removing the filth that once had such a hold on your life. When a person leaves Christianity, there's an entire grieving process that one must go through. ..."
Thanks for sharing that, Shannon. I think it is essential that we all understand just how grueling a process it is to leave the church. This is why I am very cautious and do not advocate unconditionally embracing Jews who are lost in messianic churches, or Gentiles who are attracted to Judaism. I suggest that professionals get involved. Counter-missionary field work is not for laypeople. It is very serious soul work.
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Permalink Reply by Lynn Risor on
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Shannon that is an awesome point you made. But now I must pose a question coming out of all of that myself. I still have a "christian bible" that I have for the last 8 years. The reason I still have it is to point out contradictions to those who would try to "win me back" (its my been there done that, NOT going back again proof) as you earn a gazillon points for bringing one back "into the fold" is this okay? or should I truly get rid of it? I am genuinely asking this question.
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Thanks Shannon, I appreciate you coming from the law, that is what is most important. And I did not know that according to Jewish law. Now I know what I need to do.
Shannon Orand said:Lynn,
I'm glad you asked, but honestly my opinion really doesn't matter. Since my heart is so tangled up emotionally with this issue (much of my family and friends still in Christianity), I have to be careful to rely only on Torah & Halacha on this.
According to Jewish law, if you are a Jew... the material is idolatrous to you and should not be in your home. If you are a Jew, you are obligated to burn the idolatrous material.
Blessings,
Shannon...
Lynn Risor said:Shannon that is an awesome point you made. But now I must pose a question coming out of all of that myself. I still have a "christian bible" that I have for the last 8 years. The reason I still have it is to point out contradictions to those who would try to "win me back" (its my been there done that, NOT going back again proof) as you earn a gazillon points for bringing one back "into the fold" is this okay? or should I truly get rid of it? I am genuinely asking this question.
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Permalink Reply by Moshe Verschleisser on
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We have to be so, so careful with just throwing our arms open to anyone; I know of several messianics that've taken advantage of people's kindness to either advance their knowledge of Rabbinic works, or to demonstrate acceptance from the Orthodox community.
It's the din rodeif - sometimes to save the body you have to remove a limb.
That isn't to say we should ever permanently close the doors to their return, of course.
ellen said:Thanks for sharing that, Shannon. I think it is essential that we all understand just how grueling a process it is to leave the church. This is why I am very cautious and do not advocate unconditionally embracing Jews who are lost in messianic churches, or Gentiles who are attracted to Judaism. I suggest that professionals get involved. Counter-missionary field work is not for laypeople. It is very serious soul work.
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Hi Moshe,
Welcome to Jewish Israel and thanks for your comments. We do need to be "so careful", but it seems the the Jewish people are throwing caution to the winds and floundering on this issue
because
a) we're not quite sure what to with this outpouring of "unconditional love" and we wouldn't want to "bite the hand that feeds us".
b) it's simply not "nice" to reject those nice people who are trying to "graft" themselves onto our tree
c) we are unable to prioritize and separate the issues. We are receiving political, moral, and financial support from an evangelizing community. Our commitment to the Torah and to Hashem must fit in this picture somewhere.
The halacha is very clear on the issue, but of course nobody wants to be in the position of saying something uncomfortable and unpopular about our current "best friends".
Moshe Verschleisser said:We have to be so, so careful with just throwing our arms open to anyone; I know of several messianics that've taken advantage of people's kindness to either advance their knowledge of Rabbinic works, or to demonstrate acceptance from the Orthodox community.
It's the din rodeif - sometimes to save the body you have to remove a limb.
That isn't to say we should ever permanently close the doors to their return, of course.
ellen said:Thanks for sharing that, Shannon. I think it is essential that we all understand just how grueling a process it is to leave the church. This is why I am very cautious and do not advocate unconditionally embracing Jews who are lost in messianic churches, or Gentiles who are attracted to Judaism. I suggest that professionals get involved. Counter-missionary field work is not for laypeople. It is very serious soul work.
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Someone has to start - might as well be us. Or even just me. We can appreciate the support and set conditions for it; we can't continue being okay with so many turning blind eyes towards this. Every soul is worth a world.
Even a tidal wave was once just a ripple.
I think that a lot of us make the mistake of dealing with Israelis on this as if we're dealing with Americans - it has to be dealt with moderately,publicly, and diplomatically in the Israeli vernacular. Secular Zionists must be clued in fast.
Jewish Israel said:Hi Moshe,
Welcome to Jewish Israel and thanks for your comments. We do need to be "so careful", but it seems the the Jewish people are throwing caution to the winds and floundering on this issue
because
a) we're not quite sure what to with this outpouring of "unconditional love" and we wouldn't want to "bite the hand that feeds us".
b) it's simply not "nice" to reject those nice people who are trying to "graft" themselves onto our tree
c) we are unable to prioritize and separate the issues. We are receiving political, moral, and financial support from an evangelizing community. Our commitment to the Torah and to Hashem must fit in this picture somewhere.
The halacha is very clear on the issue, but of course nobody wants to be in the position of saying something uncomfortable and unpopular about our current "best friends".
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